The way I started really, I was doing this type of work in the United States where there are a number of lawyers doing it and it had not been done in the UK with the rest of Europe before. I think the reason I started in the United States was that there was a civil rights movement. And in the civil rights movement, lawyers became deeply involved right away because if you're black civil rights you're arrested. And some four cider? Founders, so the environmental movement coming along just behind the civil rights movement in time and said ah, we need lawyers and environment movement as well. As a result, one of the main contributors to the environment now is how has been its lawyers. Here there were no need for civil rights movement, so environmental groups became expert campaigners, but the law really wasn't part of the deal and never has happened, they never use law strategically, they would say they have. I came here and one of our interviewed people and environmental groups in the UK, in Brussels and so on and was very surprised of the positive views of law and that's where the client came from, so bringing their kind of intellectual DNA and work I've done in the United States into these very difficult cultures.